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The other day, my dad handed me a printout of an article from a conservative website about going to college. Dad does this from time to time, I think because he suspects I'm a filthy liberal, and wants to send a few shots across the bow to see if I fire back. I usually don't, because I've been through enough warfare to have a better idea of when to pick my battles.

Well, I won't reference the article directly, but the gist of it was that college is a bit of a costly venture that doesn't always yield the results it promises for the price of admission, and may actually do more harm than good. (High schoolers, meditate on that for a minute, please)

Now, the article itself sort of descended into a screed about how colleges just crank out liberals anyway, and liberals tend to vote Democrat, and we should just bust the whole thing up because dear God, we need conservative voters or they'll have a WOMAN in the White House next...

...Which is unfortunate, because "liberal conspiracy" aside, I felt the article had some good points. Unless you live somewhere where there ain't no TeeVee, it's pretty well drilled into your head that college follows high school sure as the night follows the day, college equals good paying job, and "no college" equals dumbshit failure. Does that sound about right? You're not going to college? Hell, even Simple Timmy from two doors down went to TECH SCHOOL, you are GOING to go to college, little lady!

But that's the thing. There's a lot of emphasis put on going to college, and we've been brought up to believe that it's the next step after high school. Or even if it's not as automatic as all that, it's still what you ought to do, right? You want a good job, right?

Hold on...since we're told by everyone under the sun that these are "tough economic times", we ought to be a little more inquisitive about what we're spending money on, right? seems rather weird that college, with its often six-figure price tag, is something of a necessity in these times of woe and want. It almost seems as if college is a business, and not an institution of higher learning.

Look, I'm not here to get into a tit-for-tat about courses and schools and job placement or whatever. If you want to be a doctor? Go to college. A lawyer? An engineer? A superstar quarterback? GO TO COLLEGE. College is not evil! But if you don't know what you want, DON'T GO TO COLLEGE. If you have a vague idea but really just want to party away from your parents for a few years, DON'T GO TO COLLEGE. They don't say this enough in high school. College is for LEARNING. You can party on your own time for FAR LESS MONEY. If you don't have an explicit reason to go to college, there's no clock ticking for you right out of school. Experience life, experience jobs, experience paying debts before you decide to throw a ton of money at a system that insists you need it for its own interests.

Higher learning is a good thing. But we've gone and gotten ourselves into thinking it's the only thing. This is especially my advice to any young artists who might be reading this. For me, art college was not a mistake. But it was costly--very costly--and if I can do any good in this world, then part of it surely must be saving someone from a college price tag before they knew what such a thing meant :)

This is actually a discussion VERY worth having. If there are any college graduates out there reading this, or high schoolers on the cusp of making a decision, I'd love to hear from you. Is college worth it? When is it worth it?  What about student debt? Tuition? I'd be interested in hearing some thoughts.
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goldenavatar Featured By Owner Jun 30, 2013
Is college worth it? That's entirely up to the individual, but it has to be the individual who makes that decision. If you're fresh out of high school with no work experience of your own or resources to independently engage the costs it maybe a disaster waiting to happen. There's more to college than showing up with your high school diploma under your shoulder.

When is it worth it? When you have a path in mind, the money to afford the journey, and the professional network that is encouraging you along the way.

What about student debt? When on the tail end of an undergrad education, sure. Not for all four years. For grads, if the undergrad degree didn't generate income, a masters in the same subject is just a bad investment unless you plan to go into education. And be forewarned, going into education will mean you will likely NEVER develop consistent real world experience that will ensure your credibility outside of academic circles.

Tuition? Start small at a public junior college. Get an associates and develop the study skills you'll need to succeed. Identify professional associations and a network you can call upon later. But remember, you have to give to receive. No one wants to hear about what you want unless you're also offering of yourself.
dragonaur Featured By Owner May 19, 2013  Hobbyist
Payback depends on what you study.
IronAnarchy Featured By Owner May 15, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
It's been a while since I last checked your page, and what do I see, you've posted something ridiculously relevant to my current situation.

I just had my last day of high school yesterday. I've had it in my head I won't be continuing my education since I was hell young and still hold to that. The necessity of college really depends entirely upon what you want to do - and being a lawyer or a doctor isn't the only road to success. My goals consist of writing a few books, making a kickass webcomic and turning it into an animated series, traveling the whole world overland for 2-4 years while working odd jobs, killing a few people during a short stint in the military, and then starting a business once I settle down.

None of these things are something that require formal education - I've got all the traits for them, and in time skills as well. A lot of people around me are subtly pressuring me into college or reacting as if I'm going to waste my life away as a waiter but fuck 'em, 30 years from now I'll have achieved far more than they could dream of.

I've noticed a lot of people on reddit (which is pretty american dominated) with fancy STEM degrees going on about education, and how you're going to flip burgers your whole life without it but that false elitism really needs to stop. The greatest people history has known are those who hadn't followed the road defined by society, but made their own. Young people need to be told that if they know what they want, and it doesn't require education, there's no need for them to get it.

I'm still rather nervous about straying from the well-defined path - I'm not certain about my plans. I intend to do freelance writing on the web to support myself in the first few years, and while I live in a country where you can live very comfortably on 500$ a month, I still have no idea if I'll find enough clients and make it work for me. My second option is unskilled labor but I have no idea where to find that work, it's certainly not on the internet.

But these issues are still much better than college for me.
bladehawk949 Featured By Owner May 8, 2013  Student General Artist
What would you advise for me?
I'm doing my final exams and I know what I WANT to do, but I'm not sure whether I'm ready to do it...
VanHeist Featured By Owner May 8, 2013
If you're asking, I'd advise this:

Unless you're an elderly person or terminally ill, there's time :) This will sound a lot like procrastination, but there's no harm in delaying a decision while you get your house in order. Knowing what you want is easier than knowing you're ready, but don't let yourself be rushed into a decision you don't necessarily feel you're prepared to make. The whole point of this journal was not to point out that college is bad or worthless, but that it's an expensive choice that requires a clear head and preparation, and will serve you much better if you go into it that way.

So, in a nutshell, take what time you need to prepare yourself, and when you're ready, take that next step. Good luck!
ZachValkyrie Featured By Owner May 5, 2013  Student Writer
The thing people don't realize is that college needs to be job-focused. For example: I'm going to Wentworth to study computer science. I have a bunch of friends in nearby Northeastern University who are business students in dire need of a few good codemonkeys.

I'm incurring a bit of debt (not as much as those NU kids though! Suckers!); but when my time is up, I'm pretty much guaranteed a decent job with a good salary, so my debt will be gone comparatively quickly (assuming I can keep my head above water for the next three years of course!) I have a very clear plan of what I'm doing and where I'm going, and that's good.

I have plenty of friends who did not go to college and are actually doing very well for themselves. I have OTHER friends still who went to college because that's just what you're expected to do when you live in an upper-middle-class town in Massachusetts. Those kids are drowning in student loan debt and freakin' miserable (but they'll never admit it!)

It all comes down to having a realistic goal in mind.
roknin Featured By Owner May 3, 2013  Professional General Artist
Haha, it's like this was written for me to respond to. ;p

I just completed my MFA - in Creative Writing of all things - about two years ago, something I thought I'd never do. But to get to that point where I understood why I went to college in the first place, I incurred a ton of debt that I probably didn't need to. Not because I was some party animal or lazy or dropped classes... but because really, I was under the impression that once I finished college, I was guaranteed a job, that they would just fall at my feet the moment I had the diploma in my hand.

That was dispelled as soon as I was informed that I had until the day after my Portfolio Review to ship out.

You've explained it pretty well in the journal itself, honestly. My first few years after high school, I meandered through a couple of schools, until I finally had to pay for it on my own and realized the responsibility I was undertaking. I didn't get my Associates until I was 23, and at the time I felt like that was really, really incredibly bad. As it turns out, it wasn't... but I should have gone to that community college first before I jumped head-first into a 4-year school! And once I did make the decision to pursue a BFA out of state, I was amazed at how many students younger than me, fresh out of high school really just wanted an easy degree, a quick way out and some party time...

A LOT of them didn't even make it through the first two quarters.

College is definitely worth it if you're going in with a plan, can set it up so you are spending the least amount of money possible, and you have the commitment. My advice honestly is if you're coming right out of high school and aren't sure, but want to continue your education in some way, start with a decent community college, tackle some of the Gen Ed courses or a couple of things you're interested in first. Don't go to a University or a Trade school unless you are absolutely sure that's what you're going to go into, because it is not cheap, and the good schools will be an absolute test of your will by the end of it.

The idea that college equals better job is somewhat true - but again, it depends on what you plan to do. Some fields do pretty much require it - you're not going into programming without the credentials to back it up, unless you are simply a prodigy... in which case you'll likely be able to get a free ride anyhow. But for other career choices, it may not be necessary.

The hardest part is doing the research to understand which category you're in. Looking back, I wish I had done that to begin with rather than following the age-old idea that I simply have to immediately go to college. I could have prepared myself much better.

And, honestly the harsh truth of it is that in America, the College education setup is a hustle. The fact we pay for education at such a ridiculously high cost is quite frankly obscene (but that's a discussion for another day, won't get into that too much here). If you're going in to it, you ABSOLUTELY MUST GO IN TO IT TO GET EVERYTHING OUT OF IT YOU CAN. Students need to remember that if they're going to college - they're hustling you. Hustle them back. Use their supplies 24/7, bum all those resources, bug the instructors about everything you can... get everything you can out of it so you can come out of the other side of it much more prepared for what lies ahead. You're paying thousands of dollars - use that lab! Use all 20 of those computers to render your demo reel if you have to, you paid for it!

I sound bitter, but honestly - debt frustration aside (screw you Sallie Mae) - I do not regret my choices one bit. After all, taking that leap across the country helped me grow, and I learned a lot about myself and what I really wanted since that car trip me and my buddy took in 2005. It took longer than expected, but it ended up worth it. Had I planned it out better though? I might have been able to save a lot more money and gotten further along quite a bit quicker.
mikhto Featured By Owner Apr 28, 2013  Student Digital Artist
NOT WORTH IT. I'm a current university student, I've been to one uni for VFX and concept design, and then I transferred to another for illustration since that was lacking in educational value and this one is worse. They're both just about doing tasks to meet the grade and kissing ass for soul-destroying jobs. From my experience, they aren't about an actual education, they just tell you to do things under a pretence it'll educate you.

My illustration teachers pretend they know me enough to be able to say what's best for me, and what will educate me when they know so incredibly little of me and my previous learning experiences. They push people through the same tasks regardless of ability or individual needs. It's pointless and unfit as an education. Even if the tasks had actual educational value in themselves, most people wouldn't benefit because it wouldn't suit them.

I would recommend to anyone who has a clear and confident idea of what they want to do in illustration is to just live as inexpensively as possible, get a part time job, and learn and develop in their spare time.

University/Colleges for me have just been a conveyor belt system and the qualification really doesn't guarantee a job. Even my course leader said the qualification didn't mean anything to an employer - all an employer would care about if you're capable of doing the job and your portfolio is the only actual guarantee of that.

There are cheaper ways to meet people and party, and there are certainly cheaper and far more efficient ways of educating. We have the internet now, you don't need to go to some ridiculously expensive institution to tell you what to learn. If you have the discipline and the drive, you can do it yourself :).

I plan to leave eventually (I'm in the UK so I have a cheap student loan from the state), but I'm staying just for now until I make the right arrangements.
TheSilverSerpent1 Featured By Owner Apr 18, 2013
Thanks VanHeist. While I wouldn't have traded the friends I've made and the knowledge and experiences I've gained from my years at Uni, I would have liked to have seen this article a year or two ago, so that I would have considered it further before going into the course I'm in.

Thought provoking as always.
CreatureGirl Featured By Owner Apr 17, 2013
Oh and I forgot to add one more thing. It doesn't hurt to get a transferable AA degree at a community college because you can take classes to better figure out what you want to get into if you were still unsure by the time you graduate high school. I majored in fine arts and minored in marine biology and business. I took those classes because I knew that I could walk away with something that I could(and do) use. If I need to I can go back and get a BA if I find it necessary. Plus I can apply to higher paying jobs that require at least an AA as well for when those freelance art jobs are scarce. I don't want to work at a pet store forever but I'm one of the most knowledgeable aquarium experts there is in the entire city! Its a small victory but big accomplishments take time. I may as well make money involving my second love so I don't feel like I'm just wasting my time.
CreatureGirl Featured By Owner Apr 17, 2013
I wanted to go to an art college but A) I didn't have the money. Father kindly offered to pay for a good chunk of tuition until I corrected him saying that I needed to go there for at least 2 years, not 1 (don't know why he thought that). B) The cost just to submit an application let alone several gouged me for money. C) Every time I fixed my portfolio like the school counselor asked they would turn around and tell me that "something had changed" in the portfolio requirements but I was "almost there".

Now I know. I know, keep at it. Everyone kept telling me that but having a no nonsense businessman such as my father always proverbially pointing at his watch I quickly crumpled under the pressure and as a result I felt like a sad sack who wanted to do art with a shitty back up plan to go into business management and accounting like "you know who by now" always wanted. So I'm sitting at a coffee bean watching Scooby Doo, trying to stall from signing up for business classes while drawing in my sketchbook thinking. 'If only I could just do that pupil learning from a veteran type of apprenticeship.' Next thing I know this scruffy hippy looking guy had his laptop cord tangled up with mine. He sees my sketch book, "You're an artist?" "Yeah." "Me too. What do you do?" "Well I'm trying to get into concept art." "Really? As in drawing for films?" "Not just that but, yeah." "I build movie props. Want to learn?" "....sure!"

Not only did I learn what would have cost over thousands of dollars in tuition fees but I learned trade secrets that spanned over several different fields of art: film, props, drawing, painting, puppetry, even some film credits as an extra. Some art schools won't even let you take classes outside of what specialized field you are accepted for unless you, guess what, re-apply and pay the application fee for it. That's what the schools that I tried to apply to told me. Oh yeah and I got PAID for some of the projects I worked on even though I was still learning which I call a double bonus.

Now I would call that luck to be one in a million, regardless, I may not have a degree under my belt but I have much more on the job experience and practical knowledge about how to deal with clients who try to play dirty than the average university student (as far as I can tell). Then again this certainly doesn't make me any better than a graduate either since I haven't spent several years learning past basic color design, learning Photoshop or the promise of having my portfolio looked at by major studios once I graduate. However I don't have to concern myself with paying off student loans.

If I was given the opportunity I would most certainly take up any chance for furthering my knowledge and improving my skills. On the other hand if I really do get my name out there for any future accomplishments without going to a university, no school will be able to say "Loooook she graduated from ourrr schooool. So if you go to our institution and pay our outrageous fees you could be just as famous as herrrrrr!" It may be an odd pet peeve of mine but I just can't stand how hard some schools drill you with "well-off people have gone to their schools" as a selling point as opposed to, well anything else. So I have a huge amount of respect for anyone who is a self-taught artist. Eric Powell, the creator, writer and artist for The Goon for instance.

...oops, I went a little crazy on the writing but what I'm trying to say is. Go with what works best for you. There is technically no right or wrong path. There will always be a con to go with the pro. Just go with what works best for you and if you don't see a path that works for you. Make one!
dairo-miyazhima Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2013
This is something I think a lot of high schoolers need to see, especially those intent on pursuing careers as artists or mechanics where a trade school (about half as long and 10% of the price) is a good enough transition into a working career. Personally, I'm not sure I would go to college if I believed I could go do the job I wanted without an engineering degree (I can, kinda, but I get paid a lot less and about half the fringe benefits). But on the other hand, I also have already spent seven years doing what I plan to do for a living for the military, and before that, I wasted ten years learning virtually nothing in school. That isn't to say I was failing (I usually got whatever grades I felt like getting), but once I learned that all schools want you to be able to do is find information in their books and put it in your papers, and then give your papers to them, the learning process kind of slowed down to a trickle. I was about eight at the time. However, there is a fair number of people who can't do that, and there are also those who graduate or drop out of high school without reaching the already low peak the education system can provide, such as how to read, write, and do basic (+,-,x,/) math.

A person's future is up to the individual if they are proactive and self-aware. It doesn't hurt (too much) if you're not. But if you can pass either the SAT or ACT at any point in your K-12; or are not planning on doing something that requires college (as she says, look into this) you might as well only show up for class for attendance's sake and bother with homework enough to get by. The rest of that time should be yours. You only get each year once. As far as I know, only a high school diploma is required, and even that can usually be matched by a GED. Anything past that should be determined by the career path you're pursuing.

TL;DR As the lady says, if what you plan on doing with the rest of your life doesn't require college, don't waste your money on it. You can always go later, if you keep your diploma or proof you had one and also save up enough money to start.
DracoSkyne Featured By Owner Apr 15, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I realize I'm replying on a late journal (trying to clean out my backlog), so I'll keep it short.

While I think college is a still a good idea in the long term, people shouldn't rush into it lest they chose a wrong major or fester in school by constantly switching majors. We should encourage people to take a break between high school and college, and we should especially not discourage them from going to community colleges! There are a few quality community colleges in my area that I would argue taught my friends better than my expensive state university.
VanHeist Featured By Owner Apr 15, 2013
If I can judge anything by these comments, it's that college is generally a good decision, but one that you need to be informed enough to make. I agree that a lot of people rush into it, sometimes with good intentions, but a lack of awareness. College is expensive, and requires commitment that not all of us are equipped to give, at least not always right out of high school.

And yes, there are less costly options to consider, which can serve you just as well. I hope folks read the many comments here, there's a lot of good input :)
DTJB Featured By Owner Apr 11, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
"A diploma is less useful than a ticket to a movie." -Soichiro Honda

I remember going to the University of Iowa right out of high school because I wanted to have a sense of liberation and have a successful future as a writer or something. That didn't work out as there were too many distractions that kept me preoccupied and I couldn't handle the full time class schedule. As a result, I went to an area community college and got my associates degree in web design. That didn't help out a bit because many companies looking for designers wanted employees with skills no one bothered to teach me anyway. I spent several years working in no-where jobs with no motivation to work. So I figured it was about time to go back to college and try to get a career as a graphic designer since people were looking for graphic designers; honestly it didn't matter what major I took, I just wanted something out of it. It's been 4 months since I got my bachelors and I don't have a career as a designer, but what I got out of it is something better.

I've always been a fan of art and I've always been considered a creative person. To me, taking classes at Loras was totally worth it as I've learned so much about art and why artist think like they do (it's how I finally understood conceptual art), and I was able to develop my creativity in order to make work that looks outstanding to me rather than something that looks average or amateurish. My experience at U of I taught me how much hard work needs to be put into college and all that hard work really paid off. Not only did I get my bachelor's degree (something I consider to be a miracle since I have A.D.D. and I'm usually pretty lazy anyway) but I also earned the right to have my own solo art show on campus which all of us art students had to prove we deserved. I've also shown my art around town and I have another show coming up in the Quad Cities.

Perhaps I can get a career as a design in the future, I've at least bumped into fellow artists who are always willing to collaborate. But right now, I'm pretty comfortable with the way I'm doing things. I still have my gas station job from when I started college; I've gotten more hours which pays enough for me to support myself and I've grown used to it to the point that I enjoy working there and I know it's guaranteed rather than trying to find full time employment elsewhere. I'll more than likely look for a different job when something happens at this one. The best part is that people are talking about my work and say they really enjoy what they see. I may not enjoy any major success as an artist, but I'm already getting a lot of positive feedback and the best part is I feel like I'm REALLY doing something with my life.

If anything, don't go to college to automatically get a career; it can happen but there is never any guarantee that anything will happen. Go to college to learn, expand your outlook on life and become a smart thinker. Of course, that's only guaranteed if you actually put the work in.

Oh, and part of that article sounds like a load of bull. At least from my experience at Loras, there were plenty of liberals and conservatives who went there that left as liberal and conservative graduates.
Adden Featured By Owner Apr 9, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
I think it is worth it only if you know what you're going to college for. Howdy! Community college here, I shall be transferring to California State University Northridge in Fall of 2013, so that's just right around the corner, golly.

I have been blessed by being born into a family that put away for my college education in advance. Ever since I was little I was always told, 'you're going to college' 'are you excited about college?' 'college is so cool' 'you can take your barbies to college!' So never going to college wasn't really an option for me. I figured it couldn't hurt, especially since I knew exactly what I wanted to do the moment I stepped foot into middle school.

For people who already have their mind made up about what they want to do in life, if furthering their education interests them, I think they should go to college! I think it's pretty terrible that it costs so much, especially since I know more than a handful of people that are smart and want to transfer to a big, fancy university, but don't have the funds and will probably end up paying student loans for the majority of their life.

College isn't for everybody though, and I totally support and understand the other side of the tracks. d: I'm liberal and pretty hippy-dippy as it is. I just want everybody to do what they love and for everybody to be happy. <3

Over and out!
Haeth Featured By Owner Apr 9, 2013
Essentially you're right, but that's part of the problem in and of itself. A lot of people THINK they know what they want but end up either wasting 4+ years of their lives on parties/degrees they end up hating OR they end up wasting 4+ years on degrees that are ultimately kind of pointless *a degree in Medieval English Literature and a dollar will get you a candy bar.*

It's something I tried to explain to my little sister when she applied for college. She wanted to get a degree in Art History, and I explained too her that a degree like that severely limited her choices in life and she would most likely not get a job which would benefit from that kind of a degree. *I know this because my first degree was a BoA in Sociology and I regret that decision even too this day with 2 more degrees under my belt.*

In a way though, this is where I disagree with you. People need too learn a lesson sometimes. Not in a mean way mind you, just that they'll learn better by trying and failing and trying again than they will by being told. Yes it can be a waste of money/time, but they will still gain experience. So I guess it's kind of give and take.

A video on the subject I think you would enjoy:
danime91 Featured By Owner Apr 8, 2013
Finishing up college right now, and I completely agree that college isn't for everyone, and not even necessary. One of my professors tells a story about a friend of his who, after high school, immediately went looking for a job, and today earns a respectable six figure salary without ever having gotten an education. I'm going for a Computer Science degree, which even that doesn't really require higher education if you're dedicated enough to learn on your own. I do need the degree, however, because the Army requires its officers to have some sort of degree in order to commission.

If you're thinking about going into a career in law, medicine, or some sort of research and development gig, then totally, college is gonna be important. If you're one of the many many people I know who go to college for some degree in sociology or philosophy, unless you're planning on becoming the next Thomas Paine or Charles Darwin, don't bother. Going to college just to earn a degree for the sake of having a degree is not going to do you any favors.

Tuition-wise, if you really can't afford it, state and federal grants and scholarships are good about covering a lot of your expenses, and you can always get a loan. Loans aren't to be feared, unless you're one of those who went in for a bullshit degree and don't have any actual career plans for after graduation, in which case, good luck trying to pay off that loan on a McDonald's salary.

Long story short, if you really want to go to college to learn something or in order to get your dream job that actually requires a degree of some sort, I'm with you all the way. It's a great experience to have, even though at times you'll go crazy from the workload. If you just want to go to college because everyone else is telling you to, but you have no idea what to do, you'd be better off spending those four years getting a job, getting some training, some actual work experience, and build your way up from the bottom of some company.
Sazshaw Featured By Owner Apr 6, 2013
If you study something related science, techonology, engineering or mathematics, you will get a job and will pay well.

If you study art, psychology, humanities, english litreature, history, etc, you will not get a job and financially it'll be as if you never went to college at all.
VanHeist Featured By Owner Apr 6, 2013
That sounds bitter and harsh.

And terribly true.

"Will" and "will not" is up for debate, but overall that's a decent assumption of the odds.
matthinton2 Featured By Owner Apr 5, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer
It's good to hear advice from people who have been through college to get an Art degree, because that's something I'm currently working on. I initially went to college wanting to go into a science and be a doctor, all that good stuff, but when I got here, I just absolutely hated the idea of it. It didn't interest me any more, and if I didn't do something I was gonna have a serious problem and potentially lose my scholarship, which is basically the only thing allowing me to go to a nice college. I switched to art because when I look down the line, even though I know it'll be tough, it's the only place I see myself being happy. Getting to that future is the thing that's pushing me forward, making me soldier on through college so that I can reach that point.

What's great is how awesomely supportive my family has been. My dad is an artist as well so he's been helping me out by giving me good advice on where to go with my career. My mom was apprehensive at first, but when she saw how miserable I was in the sciences she gave me her full support on switching majors. I'm just about to finish up my Freshman year, so over the next few months I plan to have made a significant step forward in terms of my drawing skill and dedication. It's to the point now where I'm looking forward to getting back into classes so I can learn more, which has basically never happened to me throughout my schooling, so I think that's a good sign.
SHADOBOXXER Featured By Owner Apr 3, 2013  Professional General Artist
Let's see.... for me I went to a "trade school" and got a degree in Graphic Design so I could get the paper to say I was trained to get a job doing art, even if it was just designing forms.

A little back story, I was the first in my family to graduate High School, and then the first to get an education beyond that.

I landed my first job at a library designing newsletters and envelopes and working in the print shop that belonged to it.

Got Fired 2 years in.

Worked at a CVS for a year...... soooo much RAGE

Then through a connection landed an interview at FILA, showed them the skills I had and was hired to do photoshop edits to sneakers, so they could save money making prototypes. Kept that job for 5.5 years.

Then was scouted by New Balance, because they liked my online portfolio, which put me in a position to work on a lot of projects that earn the company some good press and money.

Plus on the side I get to work on my comics and art.

For my investment of 2 years, 7k in school costs, and burning through two cars at 500 dollars a pop, just to finish school.... for me it was a great investment.

I don't live at home, have a good car, a nice apartment, nice collection of games and an awesome girlfriend.
It was worth all the hard work, pain, and moving to another state 400 miles away.
SirFerrick Featured By Owner Apr 3, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I agree whole-heartedly. Nothing that i'd want to do requires a univercity degree, but people just expect you to do it.

Also, how old are you? Because i think of College & Uni to be post-highschool things, but i'd always kinda assumed that you were late 20s early 30s. Admitedly, i do that with most people who get a strong following & have decent storylines, but still.
MarbiChora Featured By Owner Apr 2, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
"...if you don't know what you want, DON'T GO TO COLLEGE."

I'm currently attending college, and I have barely an inkling on what I want to do when I get out. I've got a vague idea of "helping people" nailed down, but nothing more than that. I've been leaning towards education. But at the same time, my time in college is almost wasted because I'm taking classes in a field that I'm not even sure I want to continue pursuing.

However, we make a large effort to push our high school students towards going to college: it might just be a local phenomenon, but my high school teachers, advisers, everybody who could catch our war would tell us to "go to college, you can't be successful without college, you'll make money and be happier with a college degree". Even if it isn't as beneficial as it's supposed to be, I don't think we're going to stop that push anytime soon.

As for college leading to political preference... It's certainly been an experience with differing opinions, but not enough for me to want to throw my hat into the large, screaming rings that are Left and Right. Independent is the way to go :D

Rambling comment is rambling, heh.
Gekiganfan Featured By Owner Mar 31, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer
I'd like to see Gogo walk through a college and give a lecture on something. :D
RaeSeddon Featured By Owner Mar 30, 2013
Another discussion worth having where college is concerned I think, is how some majors have more social capitol than others. For example: a general Liberal Arts degree is seen as "less useful" than a business or science degree, because if it's another thing they don't tell you in high school, it's the reality of what you can expect from your major. The little piece of paper doesn't mean anything if the market is over saturated or more likely, companies don't want to hire new college graduates. I grew up being told to get a "worthwhile" degree, something that would secure me financially, and was jeered by fellow students for being "lazy" for getting a BA in English (a subject I adore.) And yet, myself and fellow English majors are some of the most secure people I know in that regard. The thing I wish I knew years ago, but learned very quickly upon graduation was that the degree is worthless without the ability to adapt--and that's not something college can teach--that's a life skill. And yet society places more praise and relevance on those who major in certain fields as opposed to others, solidifying this thought that if you can't get a job in your major you are somehow a failure, or that the education you received was a waste. It twists the perception of what an education is worth, tying it to your chosen work field, when the reality is, it's not the degree, it's what you do with it, and your degree doesn't necessarily need to have a connection with what you do for a living.
AnUrbanNomad Featured By Owner Mar 30, 2013  Student Writer
I managed to get by on scholarships and my parents helped me with the little that was left to cover so I managed to get out of it debt free. Also I love everything I learned there. For me it was worth it but I adore learning.
deathstrikesquirrel Featured By Owner Mar 29, 2013
I didn't party at college, but I did go there because that's what you are supposed to do. I like my major but I haven't used it in a long while
Lunar0907 Featured By Owner Mar 29, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
...You... have no idea how perfect this is for me /right now/.
Like. It's exactly everything I needed to hear.

Even though I'm fucking terrified of having that particular talk with my parents, since I've already been enrolled for 3 years... For everything I've learned... i usually just feel like i'm floudering around trying not to disappoint anyone, or waste money, etc. When really, at this point in my life, my only aspiration is to travel the world and write about people/culture/the human experience. Degree or no degree.

Like. That's it. That's the dream lol.

So yeah. Being raised that college is the next logical step in life, and seeing all your cousins go off and be awesome at it, and then realize that "wow... i'm kinda failing at this... i don't... think i actually want this..?" is... absolutely terrifying.
peirrin Featured By Owner Mar 28, 2013
Well, I've always considered the modern U.S. College education to be 'watered down.' When everyone has a degree, it becomes next to worthless. Except for the fact that you're in debt because of it. I worked my way through a Bachelor's degree in Electrical Engineering, and haven't managed to land a job in that field in 10 years. If I have the education, I don't have the experience they want, if I have the experience, then I don't have the education.

I actually managed to put myself through school with no debt, and no financial aid, and no help from anyone else. It was a small college, and I didn't really gain much from going there. I didn't find the more mature crowd I was hoping for, but a lot of highschoolers who were now of legal drinking age.
If I could, I would have kept going to college simply for the love of learning. But I can't afford to anymore. I've worked in hay fields, retail, handyman work, I.T. support, CNC programming, logistics, and now I'm an air brush artist. I earn what I call a 'surviving' wage, as opposed to a 'living' wage.

My dad was laid off, and now I support both him, and myself, I can't afford anymore schooling, and I can't move away to find a better job, because I can't leave him behind. I work odd jobs to pay for groceries.
College has done me no real favours.

Though, there are many sides to each story. My sister 'escaped' before I did, being older, and did obtain a masters in Library Science, and gained employment in her field. It's always tenuous, but she's managed to stay employed for the last ten years, more or less steadily. Her husband did the same, but hasn't been able to get a job in the field for this entire time, and is instead a bus driver. Both are in a state of combined debt of some $50,000 U.S.

A good friend of mine skipped college completely, and now makes more than twice what I do, working in a production facility that makes parts for nuclear, coal, and natural gas power plants. Routinely put in charge of projects that cost billions of dollars.

Another friend, whose parent's were both college professors who paid for her college education became an archeologist. She seems to enjoy it. I don't really know much more about her situation anymore, as she currently lives in France, and all I hear out of her is political views on the current state of affairs in the U.S., in French on facebook. (I never took French, I can usually keep track of it though.) Though she occasionally tries to bait me, and make me feel guilty for not agreeing with everything she says, as she's become quite liberal. :)

My sister once said that college was really only good for being a really expensive dating service. I'd have to agree.

My main gripe about not being able to finish college is not being able to meet other people with shared interests.

I'm not a 'conservative', and I'm not a 'liberal'. And both sides really just tend to annoy me. :D Sorry if that offends anyone. Oh wait... I'm not really. ;)
Mori-hime Featured By Owner Mar 28, 2013
I'm from one of those places where almost everyone is expected to go to college. The worth of it, I think, really depends on what you study and whether you have the "other" skills necessary to get a job without a degree. As to the former point: compare an electrical engineering major to a psychology major. The electrical engineer will learn good, practical skills, and probably have an easier time than most finding a job in the field because such things are usually connected to college programs in some way. The psychology major, on the other hand, will basically have wasted four (or more) years unless he/she decides to go clinical... which is not even a sure bet. To the second point: plenty of people have successful careers without a college degree. Case in point, my ex dropped out of college (after downgrading to community college), but has enough people skills (i.e. charisma) and natural talent that he has a decent career that can help him pay for the life he lives with his wife.
I think it's very much related to the dichotomy mindset we have in this society, where there are only two options to every issue. This particular topic is indeed much broader than most people think.
RuggedOutlaw Featured By Owner Mar 28, 2013  Student Digital Artist
My story is pretty long. I originally went to college on my parents dime, but only after a long argument about how college may not have been for me. I lost and ended up going to college and I had a difficult time finding a niche. It wasn't until I left and got a factory job that I realized my passion was in the arts. Forward to now, I recently graduated from a art/graphic media tradeschool. It's pricey, but it's exactly what I needed. Meanwhile other fellow graduates are disappointed because they had previous digital art/design experience. Everything was new to me and I benefited greatly, whereas they may have been better off going to an actual legit art academy (but may have been too lazy or didn't know better). I think for a majority college isn't for everyone, I'd hate to see schools of prestige fall into different archetypes of "party" school vs. "higher learning" schools. It seems that they already have and I guess provide accordingly to the students that go and pay.

And pay we shall, because that kind of education doesn't come cheap nor free, or does it? Could I have learned everything over the internet through tutorials, maybe, but then I wouldn't have gotten the personal insight from my teachers. I guess, my path has brought me where I need to be and thats good, but won't work or fit for everyone. There's nothing wrong with that. College should be a huge risk with a large pay off, it shouldn't be this easy gravy train concept that it's becoming. Tons of people are successful because of their ideas and their effort and not based on the school they went to or some prestige that was earned from some college, but that happens sometimes. It's a very situational, circumstantial kind of thing.
JoeBombable Featured By Owner Mar 28, 2013
For what it's worth, education is education whether you educate yourself or not. At this point, your quality material for being a Graphic designer and can get by finding your own work. A certificate always looks good on a resume, but so does experience. So I would either find some mentorship, travel the world or college. My friend got a couple too many thousand in College load debt, way over 9000. If you can afford it, do it. If not try something smaller like certificate training in a specific field.

I'm not going to Lie, I went to college since 03. Couple failures but never gave up! I major in Psychology, going into I.O soon. Teacher said I had a knack for the business and a career is anywhere btw 80,000 to 150,000 a year. But I've sought enlightenment for a long time and find my success in many other things beside school. Now a days, college seems to be a trade for a lot of money but not the equal amount of education for it. No offense, but I didn't pay some odd thousands of dollars to be taught by a T.A Student teacher.
PaperJack93 Featured By Owner Mar 28, 2013  Hobbyist Artisan Crafter
I have to agree.
I landed a job as a programmer immediately after high school (2 weeks) that pays more than my father's job. Needless to say, he was a bit upset as he really, really wanted for me to go to college.
I've found out that a good portfolio is much, much better than any kind of piece of paper.
rose-star Featured By Owner Mar 28, 2013  Professional Traditional Artist
I took art classes part time at a community college for a few years, planning to rack up a bunch of transfer credits and transfer to a private art school. Unfortunately, I had no idea what I was getting myself into, and when I saw the price tags at all the colleges that sounded even remotely inspiring, I was completely shocked! I was not willing to pay $30-40k+ tuition a year -- tuition alone, not counting anything else -- to get a degree that in all likelihood wouldn't help me get a job! I learned a lot in the classes I took, but it was very stressful. I still have about $5000 of debt I have to pay off, though. ><

It's really stupid how expensive education is here! I would love to get multiple degrees, if only it were free. :(

Plus, my mom has a Master's degree, a Bachelor's degree and an Associates, and even she can't find a job that pays much more than minimum wage! It's tough times now, I tell you. What has worked best for me is trying to make money on my own, without working for someone else or paying somebody for education. It's a slow process, but if you can rely on yourself as your own source of income, without needing to give others money for it (aside from paying taxes of course), I think it's the most secure thing in the long run.
Internet-Cancer Featured By Owner Mar 27, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
It's worth it.
...if you can afford it. As a student who is under the wallet of his parents, I get to see the full cost of all my classes and it always makes me uncomfortable to see. I can't afford to pay for the classes myself, and I can hardly afford gas.
And I always have to wonder where the hell all that money actually goes. I mean, textbooks can be as much as $200. I understand that they get hundreds of people to write and fact check them just by looking at the credits. So am I paying all of those people? I might actually believe that.
But for classes? Where is that money going? If a 3 credit class costs $630 and there are 20 slots, that's $12,600 per semester. Is that the professor's salary? I'd believe it. That comes out to $37,800 for three semesters, not including any summer semester that the professor teaches.
...Assuming they only teach one class A DAY. They could teach two classes and make double that. So logic would dictate that these professors would demand less money for more students since the bulk of their money makes more. This figure is also on the lower end of the spectrum. Most professors make somewhere between $40k and $80k.
As far as a salary goes, that's actually not that bad for the professor. The problem is that students can't afford that.

My opinion? Well, seeing as how the government is projected to be spending more than 500 billion on its military...that includes the 1,000+/- bases we have worldwide...I think that the money we use on our war on terror could be used elsewhere. I mean, even a few billion would help out. I actually blame the government for the unaffordability of college. Yeah, there's financial aid programs...but given how these are the same stupid fucks that put the country 17.548 TRILLION dollars in debt, I wouldn't recommend it.

The only real way to make college more accessible is to decrease the salaries of professors, and in an economic climate like this I don't think that will happen. But college is really a money vampire and I'm not surprised people are attacking it. I wouldn't mind if state money would be used to decrease college costs, but again; I'm putting my trust in dumb fucks who put the country in 17.548 trillion dollar debt. Wanna know what the gross national product of this country is? 15.23 trillion.
So...yeah. Trust these idiots with your financial aid. That'll work.
There's no right answer for if college is worth it. A lot of the skills you can actually learn on your free time. I considered a degree in forensic psychology for a while, and I studied up on it quite a bit (to my family's chagrin). There is a huge wealth of free information out there on this one subject. Public libraries in particular are incredible resources for this type of information. What college offers, though, is the development of skills.
Therefore an alternative to college could be "study classes", where you hunt down material and analyze it in a group of like-minded people utilizing the answer keys that professors use, which, for a $200 dollar book, easily costs only $20 per "student" if you only buy the study plans. This won't get you a degree but it will sure as hell help with skill development.
Moonafleet Featured By Owner Mar 27, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
As much as I am enjoying my time in college now, I have to agree that it's really an individual choice. I have a very set goal (veterinarian), and therefore college is a necessity. I went here first and foremost to go beyond the undergraduate degree and into Vet school. But I also went here to make sure being a vet is absolutely what I want to do; as in, to see if I can handle heavy course loads and time-intensive jobs, etc. And college has done that for me. I'm in my third year and I would not have been as certain as I am now about my career choice if I had acted differently. I hesitate to suggest waiting on college only because I think I would have, personally, lost my momentum and study skills I'd begun to develop in high school. But again, this is such a personal decision, and I agree in that I think it needs to be more widely thought of as a personal decision rather than a requirement for having a good life.

I think I'm also really lucky in that my parents can help where the scholarships can't. I snatch up every scholarship I can, but as of yet I haven't had to take out a loan. Of course, I'll be taking them out by the fistful when I get into vet school, but that's another story. I don't necessarily want to discourage people from going to college just because money is tight, though? I see your point there, and it's a good one, but scholarships really can do a lot. Most colleges will pay for a good portion off the tuition if your grades are high to begin with, and will continue to do so if you can maintain a decent standard once in college. It takes a lot of work and focus, though, so I guess we're back to that "personal choice" thing again. If you don't think that's for you, then don't do it. But if you're passionate about something, and college can help you get to your dream job or can help you discover what that dream job is, then I don't think they should necessarily hold themselves back over money.

Dunno if any of that made sense or even made a point. I just thought I'd throw my personal observations in.
megrar Featured By Owner Mar 27, 2013
well, for me personally, the actual learning bits at college were a waste. i only had ONE good teacher out of the whole four years, and three years in, another teacher made the mistake of admitting to the kids of my major that they were ripping us off and we weren't going to get animation jobs of any kind when we got out, because they hadn't structured the department in any way that would actually help us.

that said. i was raised under a deeply conservative, religious rock. i had one hour of internet a day, and it was AOL dial-up, so my exposure to the world through that avenue was viciously limited. going to college was my first real face-to-face with the world and real world issues. it was my first real interaction with all the kinds of people my church routinely demonized. and this attitude of your dad's? extremely present in my church. to the point that, despite having no verbal contact with me, they decided i was tainted and started treating me like the enemy from my first summer back and on.

it was an amazing eye-opener all around.

skipping college would have removed all of that from my life, and i would have been much poorer for it.
ScouterV Featured By Owner Mar 27, 2013  Student Writer
It's funny. The way your journal started, I couldn't help but think that perhaps your relationship with your father isn't unlike that of Haley and Stan from American Dad.

Anywho, currently a Freshman in college. Held off on declaring my major for awhile until I was sure, but It's looking like Telecommunications. See, I love to write. That said, I didn't have to come to school to learn how to be an author. I could have done that without graduating High School (glad I did, though.) Now, I'd still like to be an author, but I also want to find ways where I can apply my trade in writing to use in the real world. Hence I chose to go into a writing-heavy field.

Looking at the comments it looks like we have a lot of artists (not really surprising,) that aren't happy with the debt they got from college. Still, even a visual artist can find something fun to do in college where they can put their skills to use. Design for example. Anywho, in my opinion, I think everyone can benefit from college, but they don't HAVE to go.
lilbriko Featured By Owner Mar 27, 2013  Student Digital Artist
"For me, art college was not a mistake. But it was costly--very costly--and if I can do any good in this world, then part of it surely must be saving someone from a college price tag before they knew what such a thing meant" -- my sentiments exactly. I learned in art school, but it wasn't enough to make up for the ASSLOAD of debt I'm going to have (currently a junior/senior). Go to technical school. I've heard those are awesome. Though, I'm SUPER glad of going to school for the people i've met and the experiences i've had that I couldn't get anywhere else.
wanted-dedore-alive Featured By Owner Mar 27, 2013
I chose not to go to College (called University/Uni here) for pretty much the exact same reasons you mentioned. I didn't have any idea what I wanted to study, and so didn't want to throw a whole lotta time and money at something I didn't want. I'd just end up stuck in a rut like that. Not to mention I'd already looked around and noticed most jobs asked for 2+ years of experience and didn't mention qualifications. So instead I started immediately looking for a job (and eventually got one), never regretted it.
The only thing that annoys me is that quite a few members of my family have said I didn't want to because I was lazy, despite me explaining why I chose what I did.
Though my aunt has changed her tune, she suddenly started saying that I was wise to get a job straightaway (probably 'cos she's trying to get a job and realising the difficulty now :p ).
Rimani Featured By Owner Mar 27, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Haha, yes. I went to college. Sort of.
I had no idea after high school what I wanted to be so I just tooked a degree that sounded interesting, hmm working with computers and combine them? yesssssss!
So I went to business school here in Finland, to be a.. wait what is it called.. IT specialist? (datanom at the time), and took a college beside it. sort of combined studies. Got it thru, just and just (almost had a burn out).
Had to take a student loan for I left home the second year in there (and college books were expensive! Not to mention the final college examinations!) And after graduating I took business administrator degree(media-assistant) and read it thru in a year.
So now with two degrees and college degree, I'm sure to have plenty of job offers, maybe even find one to stay and move around Finland!

Still living at my hometown.
Can't find a permanent job, only short ones. And usually they have nothing to do with my degrees.
Oh how have I tried to find a place to say. But no, they keep me as long as they don't have to pay full salary, or for free (hate those things, it's called "learning from job") Bullshit I say!

And now the bank has started to demand me to pay 50€ every month and every half a year 100€ + 50€ for installments.
It was supposed to begin after 10 years of my graduation when I surely would have a job... oh hell no can do, I just hope the rent won't rise anymore or I'll be in big trouble.
Don't take a student loan if you can manage without it!!
What now then? A another degree? Why not, those degrees weren't as promised anyway so I wouldn't mind getting another one.
As a kid I wanted to be a vet (got allergies, like, to all animals with fur or feathers, so no)
A teacher maybe (nope, I'm not good with kids anymore)
librarian? Would love that, the books are great and I love to put everything in order (allergic to any kind of dust so not that either),
Carpenter, I'm good with wood and would love to make all kind of things with it (nope, dusty dusty)
House builder? ... (duuuussstttyyyyyyy.... and asthma)
ANIMATOR! I love to draw and animations saved my childhood! (no, my wrist can't handle it, and I have a spora which can destroy my joints)
Maybe I could be a graphic designer?..... sigh
I have no idea what to do, so I'm trying to find (again) a job at least for a while.

Whoa really "happy" rattle from me sorry guys haha
Hannahbelle-the-Mink Featured By Owner Mar 27, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
I'm a sophmore in highschool at the moment, and I'm not yet sure if I want to attend college, or an arts school. I despise studying math and science, which are two HIGHLY emphasized subjects, but I also love history and literature.
I want to be an animator or voice actress, or BOTH! Please both. But my mother says I need something to fall back on, so I just HAVE to get four years at a college in!! She says that if I don't make it in the actual television industry, I can become an art teacher.
Which isn't something I really want to be.
Furrama Featured By Owner Mar 27, 2013   Digital Artist
I never understood people who went to college but who didn't know what they wanted to do yet. I at least understood people who changed their minds a year or two into their major, but never the people who just showed up to take gen eds until they made their mind up.

I'm glad, very glad, I went. But it was far too expensive for what I got. I should have just gone to an art school or something more specialized. I can understand well roundedness, and there were those other classes I did enjoy and I learned a lot from, but there were so many more of those than what I actually wanted to be there for, learning.

But the debt. Yeah. Really stupid high, especially for most kinds of art majors, and especially in a bad economy, (we're always the first to go).
StormyWolf Featured By Owner Mar 27, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Yeah, I'd agree with your assessment. If you know what you want to do, have a job goal that totally requires college, then you should probably get started shortly after high school, or as soon as you can afford it. If you don't have a specific goal, or even if you have a goal but haven't researched much on it, look into the requirements/recommendations before throwing a lot of money at it.

I went to a small, private liberal arts college and earned my Bachelor's degree in Creative Writing because I was interested in writing. What have I gotten out of it? Crippling debt, no job, and only recommendations that I move to another publisher-rich area to intern (for no pay) for a while. Okay, I did get an increased paycheck at a retail job because I had a degree (a whole $1.50 an hour more) but other than that, it's been pretty worthless.

Essentially the literature/writing degree/study is for education or publishing, fields where you are then expected/required to continue into grad school for a Masters or Doctorate. A fact I learned during my senior year, the point of no return. Again, no research done, and even then, right out of high school I wasn't ready/knowledgeable enough to know much about me. I was good at school, so I was expected to continue it.

Looking back...I don't think I would have gone the way I did. I enjoyed the environment, and some of the classes were really fun to take, but all that money for housing, food, and the school name... I think I would have rather spent it at the local community college. In fact, I've thought about going there to take some library science classes...but with the debt I've already accrued, I don't know if I can afford to. :(
Meemzer Featured By Owner Mar 27, 2013
Woah, I didn't notice how many comments you had on this journal until after I posted. Sorry, you don't have to read or comment on mine.
Meemzer Featured By Owner Mar 27, 2013
I just graduated from college in December. My goal in going was to learn how to become a better artist, and a better person. I also hoped that I would be able to get a job. I really value the education that I received. I feel like I had the chance to go to an exceptional school and associate with some very intelligent professors who genuinely cared for my future. I also made many dear friends and met my husband there. I don't regret going, and I don't regret the hard work and money that it cost me.

However, now that I am graduated I am working two part-time jobs, both of which are fast-food jobs. I am glad for the work and income, but I don't feel like I am able to do the work I was trained to do. Just the other day a medical student came in to order food, and after talking to me for a few minutes about college, he rudely said, "Well, I see you're using your degree well." It really hurt me, because I worked just as hard in school as he currently is, but because I can't find a "respectable" job I'm still somehow a waste.

I don't see my education as a waste, I loved school. I really miss all the resources I had and the way my life was spent in pursuit of bettering my mind and talents.I paid for school--it was hard, and I had to work hard--but it was worth it. I don't regret my education. What I am struggling with now is that I can't find a way to use my training in a way that produces an income. It is discouraging to not get to do what you know how to do, even after having paid the price and gone to school like society taught me.

I think that people don't value learning. I also think that public education in the US is a mess. It is all about grades, tests, and advancing to the next level rather than valuing knowledge and learning to train your mind. What matters to me is that I learned and I am better for it.

I'm not sure if I'm making sense, my thoughts aren't very organized. Your journal just struck me, because I am trying to work out things similar to what you are talking about. I wanted to share my experience. Thanks for posting.
ScouterV Featured By Owner Mar 27, 2013  Student Writer
To be fair, I've always had sneaking suspicion that med students probably think they're the cream of the crop, and are more likely to have bigger egos. I wouldn't take his outlandishness as the typical med student, though. Hope he didn't get to you.
Meemzer Featured By Owner Mar 28, 2013
Bah, yeah he sort of hurt my feelings, but I will live. He seemed to have an arrogant personality anyways, regardless of his major, so I just chalk it up to him being a jerk. Thanks for the encouragement, it was nice of you to express concern. <3
ScouterV Featured By Owner Mar 28, 2013  Student Writer
No problem. Being a medical student, it's a bit easier to get jobs, plus there's the whole "I'm a doctor," thing. I assume it can go to their heads.

:p More than likely, I'll have a job in food service at some point, so I see no reason to treat people in that position badly anyway. ^^ Plus, I seriously doubt you deserved that. You seem like an awesome person.
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